A job VERY WELL DONE, Officers, in the case of Officer Andrew Widman. Now lets get that monster that heniously murdered Tia Marie Poklemba. I know you can do it. Thank You and God Bless You, all Law Enforcement Officers.

Nice shot Officer Alian Gagnon. Glad to hear all these Officers were cleared, as they should have been.

"Hitler was insane to want people to be licensed to breed!!"

Where is the documentation on ths crazy statement?

naplestrek- you're way out of line.

paul2t....What does this have to do with anything and who cares.
Great job by police. Saved a lot of tax payers $ to have trial and finance his defense and some bleeding hearts that will say his mommy did not love him etc. etc.

naplestrek , I think, meant "They put these guys thru the ringer" , then questioned what would have happened to a law abiding, licensed citizen who defended himself with lethal force.

Unfortunately, there is no shortcut to investigating these things. Finding the shooting justified could actually be an aid to the Officers later, as in a relative filing a lawsuit against the Officers.

OF course, IF there were NO LAWYERS.............

Easy Esquire, just kidding!

To avoid encouraging this John Wayne shoot-first attitude among the police, don't you think we should institute a civilian review board, comprised of a cross-section of respected individuals, to investigate these "gunfight at the okay corral" guns blazzing type cases?

"Respected Individuals" is the rub. Too often a Policeman's difficult, life or death decision is second guessed by a well intentioned, "respected individual" who is neither well intentioned nor worthy of respect.

Respect those who put their lives on the line to protect you and your property, pay and train them well and leave the "judging" to the judges, Grand Juries and all the other instruments already in place to deal with situations. Adding another layer of "well intentioned" voices to the mix just ups the chances of political agendas being pushed at the expense of the Officers and the safety of the community at large.

Great job FMPD!

Barack bro

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newst...

We all know the "Blue Wall of Silence".

Cops routinly lie on the stand to put the bad guys away.

Okay, in that case.

But what if you're standing in the restaurant, when the cops -- especially if they are plain clothes -- decide to open up and blaze away at someone in the crowd.

Respected individuals in the Civilian Revue Board would include a large number of retired cops, DAs and experienced miliary personel to make sure their judgement is valid.

Same objection, already enough judges. Seems like a typical bureaucrat's suggestion. Add a layer of fat.

How about if the thought of being prosecuted for using your best judgment keeps an Officer from firing to defend YOUR life, Bunky? Or that of your wife or child?

Different story, huh? Probably sue him for failure to take action. The problem locally IS NOT the police. It IS run away, illegal immigration without any screening to weed out the criminals AND a failed judicial system practicing "Academics" in law rather than common sense to protect the lawful.

Kumbayah, baby, kumbayah....blah, blah, blah

Aw,now who loves ya baby? Here, have a Tootsie Pop.

"Kumbayah, baby, kumbayah....blah, blah, blah"

Don't get this???

Change the National Anthem is an interesting idea. It was nothing but an old British drinking song, originally.

But I don't like Kimbayah!

How about "Imagine" of John Lennon?

We already have that on Florida license plates...

How many would be for changing the national anthem to IMAGINE?

Probably just you and Obama.

sounds like paul2t hit the bottle early today

John Lennon was a semi-illegal immigrant, since he came from Liverpool and Nixon tried to kick him out for drug use.

The case collapsed over Nixon's illegal trix which could not be exposed in court.

Same reason Bill Ayres never went to jail as a terrorist, since Nixon's FBI had polluted all those 70s cases with illegal wire taps etc.

The Lennon estate, controlled cannily by Yoko, is today worth over a $billion to the US economy.

Demonstrates that immigration, legal or otherwise, can be a big boost for our economy.

In light of this "Imagine" should be given serious though as replacement national anthem.

Honestly, I can't stand Kumbayah and don't know why you want this one!

"Bad to the Bone" would also make an intersting replacement.

You and Mugabe are two peas in the pod!

He is 100% pro-police and pro-deadly force!!!

Who do yo think totures and murders his opponents the Rhodesian Boy Scouts???

You wouldn't last 5 minutes against MUGABE!!!

Paul2t, here is a little entertainment for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65I0HN...

#10 paul2t " To avoid encouraging this John Wayne shoot-first attitude among the police, don't you think we should institute a civilian review board, comprised of a cross-section of respected individuals, to investigate these "gunfight at the okay corral" guns blazzing type cases?"

Gun blazing? I think they should of unloaded every round FMPD had on this guy, they should of made ground beef out of him.

Did the NYPD Blues IA dept. fire you and that why you have such an issue with L.E.O.'s?

Shoot first ask questions later, it's either the officer or the criminal and I think it should be the officer that goes home that night.

"Shoot first ask questions later...."

Suppose your family happens to be in a crowded and confused restaurant or other public place,
is this the policy you welcome?

Paul2T - Your assertion that cops routinely lie on the stand is preposterous. The rules of evidence, defense counsel, and judges are all factors that prevent something like that. The prosecution, defense, and judge would all have to conspire together to allow perjury on a routine basis on the part of the prosecution. Not likely.

Defendants and criminals, however, DO routinely lie in order to get away with crimes. You sound to me like you are taking their side.

#26 paul2t, The police I welcome are the ones that keep crimnials like these off the streets. To answer your question I don't think my family goes to confused restaurants.

Please, start your anti-cop civilian review board and see how many of our fine retired cops,DA's military personel will sign up, heck it's a free country even loons can start up a committee.

Maybe you can get Deputy Dawg, I think he's retired.
Mr. District Attorney, Beretta, Shaft, Colonel klink and Colonel Sanders, oh and don't forget Captain America to join your review board.

The usual result of a Civilian Review Board is a Police Dept. adept at avoiding confrontation to the point of "letting things go" that would normally be a line in the sand.

In other words, use deadly force only to protect yourself or other Officers. The public wants to crucify us so let 'em deal with the mugger. Unless he turns his violence on us, look the other way.

There is an axiom in Law Enforcement Philosophy, "A community gets the Law Enforcement it demands and deserves."

For me, that always meant enforcing the communities standards. If those are low, you have poorly qualified Police Officers and haphazard enforcement. If those standards are high, you needn't worry about "Civilian Review boards" which are like taxing Gasoline. The cost is, ultimately, passed on to the community through Police who won't risk. Why should they, they will be persecuted by "civilian experts" who weren't there but know what happened anyway.

To suggest that LEO doesnt lie on the stand is preposterous. I spent a number of years as a trial clerk and knew when one was lying. Frankly, it made me sick, then to follow up on my thoughts with one particular officer, I actually saw him at a gas station harassing people. So, to say that cops dont lie and there are ways to find out, very difficult, it usually starts with their initial report, which by the way, they refer to during depositions and review prior to trial to keep their story straight.

I realized that I didnt include that not all cops do this, there are some really good men and women out there, just a few that have ego problems.

#30 stepetroni, Why should they, they will be persecuted by "civilian experts" who weren't there but know what happened anyway.

You hit the nail right on the head.

"The USA continues to be a violent, souless, hypocritical society that is in a downward spiral with no end in sight. Aren't some of you tired of hating and wanting revenge? What a drain that must be for you to carry around day-after-day."

AND just what country do you come from????

LOL, and yet, they continue to come here and cling to this land for dear life.

Rationalone, IF you are an American, you answer the poet's queery, "Breathes there a man with soul so dead?"

SandnSurf, of course there are instances where LEOs lie. They are a reflection of society and its mores. However, the vast majority of Policemen strive to serve and, considering the risks vs. rewards, do an admirable job. Your resentment suggests a tad of jealosy, being close to the Court system but relegated to steno status.

"Police Master The Fine Art Of "Testi-Lying"

By: Peter Crinkley

As all realistic citizens recognize, cops aren't just thugs. They are liars, too. Recently there have been a lot of cases from Pennsylvania and across the nation of cops and prosecutors being caught in their lies.

A few of the cops have even been charged. Many more were allowed to get away with it.

The most bizarre aspect of the dozens of recent cases is that the media and the public pretend to be surprised, even shocked by the corruption if not by the brutality.

I realize that the American media and, to and even greater extent, the American public are astonishingly gullible.

What I have a problem swallowing is that any part of the public over the age of 7 can pretend that cops are honest.

I see email and items in the media which claim that "the vast majority of police officers are decent, honest, good people."

That's just plain bunk! Who has ever investigated or tested "the vast majority" of cops?

In every one of the thousands of criminal cases I've been involved with, the cops were liars and anything but "good."

I'm sure that there are some cops who are decent and honest, maybe even "good," but there are blasted few of them!

Cops habitually lie. If a cop is on the witness stand in a criminal case, you can rely on the fact that much of the critical evidence he/she gives is false.

In modern time the lying hasn't been left to chance. Cops are systematically coached by their superior and by prosecutors on how to lie from the witness chair.

Sometimes a defendant is guilty. Sometimes he's not guilty. To the cop and the prosecutor the distinction is immaterial. The cop arranges the "facts" and his story to fit the prosecutor's goal; conviction of the sucker they arrested. If cops were to suddenly tell the truth, there would be very few convictions.

Thanks FMPD for getting that monster off the streets. His family should be ashamed and move away.

The last thing cops and the community need is a group of Monday morning quarterbacks to second-guess police decisions in dangerous, quickly changing situations.

Such citizen groups protect criminals and teach the police to stay away from trouble spots and situations. Washington DC has a citizens review board and look at crime in that city now.

Interesting that you would quote Crinkley. He is a playwright, not a criminologist and a favorite, I kid you not of www.prisoners.com

I am always interested in those who avail themselves of the freedoms afforded them by grace of a largely honest Police population, to villify the Police as a class. Can't decide if you are merely naive or an actual anarchist. If you are an anarchist, beware anarchy in the absence of hard working police. Ironic, isn't it?

Strep, did you read the follow up comment I made? I would submit not.

To generalize that cops dont lie, and to further generalize that Defendants have money to pay for said experts is ridiculous. Sure on occasion the testimony can be rebutted, however, that is rare. Which brings me to this point, who are you going to believe as a juror, a sworn officer, or the unfortunate person that has found themselves in the defendants chair?

#35 paul2t So your one of those sleezy, schmuck, snake in the grass no good for nothing criminial defense attorneys huh.

Next time you need help, or you have an emergency dont call those lying, corrupt, brutal, gun slinging at the o.k. coral, thug police officers.

Make sure you call the parasitic, scum of the earth, maggots you defend to help you out.

I just realized why your so angry, your wife was a cop and cheated on you and left for a better man

P.S. Steno status? What is that? Apparently you have zero idea what a trial clerk is. I said that was years ago, I dont do that anymore, moved on to greener pastures, however, still in the law business.

#14 Posted by paul2t
**QUOTE**
But what if you're standing in the restaurant, when the cops -- especially if they are plain clothes -- decide to open up and blaze away at someone in the crowd.
**END**

Ok by me if you're caught in the crossfire.

#29 Posted by rationalone
**QUOTE**
But cheering it on for when the criminal dies?
**END**

Only in an economic sense.

Think of the money the FMPD saved the taxpayers.

In this time of cutting budgets, a few government employees might have lost their jobs if the government had to support this POS.

Wow step-a-foney. Your acting like you know what your talking about. When was the last time you were in the court room as a defendant? They did away with stenographers and implemented the court smart program, recordings. mule.

So when a lovely human being kills a cop then shoots at the officers chasing him they should call upon idiot Paul2t before returning fire to make sure he's OK with it. Go back under your rock paul.

As a wife of a police officer, I would never want my husband to be second guessed at any decision he has to make in the time it takes for idiots to blink their eyes. Most officers are trained very well, know when and how to react and if it came down to an criminal with a gun shooting at people and my husband, I would sure rather my husband come home to me at night and the criminal to go to the morgue.

I know the criminal has a family that loves them (at least I hope they have someone that loves them) and I know they are probably heartbroken and for that I'm truly sorry.

paul2t you'd be the first one to sue the police for not taking action if you were in danger in this type of situation. paul2t + wipe + flush = Go back to New York

Why would any LEO want to lie on the stand even once, for once it's found out they would be of no use to ANY department in any court and thus their LE career would be OVER.

They could never testify in any other court of law without the defense bring up their incident of lying to a previous court.

Nope, makes no sense to me why a LEO would want to lie on the stand and want to keep their career.

#42 Posted by TiredoftheBS

"But what if you're standing in the restaurant, when the cops -- especially if they are plain clothes -- decide to open up and blaze away at someone in the crowd.

Ok by me if you're caught in the crossfire."

SHOW COPS & CRIMINALS DRAW FROM THE SAME CLASS and have mostly the SAME anrchist mentality.

Is this the direction we want for our kids?

Olympic legend Michael Phelps will appear on boxes of the Kellogg's brand sugar cereal, drawing sharp criticism from health experts worried about the message he'll be sending to bloated children across America.

The cops are doing a great job!

Sometimes innocent bystanders get killed in the crossfire, but, really, as long as they're not your famuly, who cares?

That's just the price you have to pay to live in a civilized society.

Stop whining and...

Get over it!

Those of you that are standing up for that POS criminal need to go visit Widman's wife and babies.

No. 50....what's that got to do with the fact that a good officer was gunned down in cold blood and the FMPD did the right thing by blasting him away. Remember, he was an illegal. Remember, a father and husband did not go home to his family because of a lovely human being. Do some cops lie, sure. There's a few bad in every occupation. But, the majority of the cops are good, hardworking men and women who keep your butt safe. I for one am glad that we don't have to go through a trial for this piece of scum. Heck, ICE would probably say we couldn't have held him for more than 180 days because he was an illegal. Good job FMPD. I pray for the officers who had to use lethal force that they may know they did the right thing. I pray for Officer Andrew Widman and his family and friends so that they may know he did the right thing. Too bad the feds couldn't do the right thing and deport this lovely human being before he killed a righteous man. And if his family even considers a lawsuit, they ought to sue themselves for NOT turning in this lovely human being when they knew he had an active warrant.

I agree!

If the cops spot someone acting suspicious on the street or in a known hangout and think he is an illegal alien, different rules should apply!

They should definitely feel entitled to open up if needed!

"In light of this "Imagine" should be given serious though as replacement national anthem."

No!No!NO! Sends a negative message to our young people!!!

"Honestly, I can't stand Kumbayah and don't know why you want this one!"

Agree!! But does Obama want this song? Looks like he will make it.

"Bad to the Bone"

Yes to this also!!!

Send the right message to the world. Look at Georgia, where the Russians cleaned our clock!!

Use your common sense umleed- the shooting range doesn't shoot back! The officers stayed with it, didn't shoot any innocents and positioned themselves to catch the killer. A job well done- period.

#53 umleed, I bet you would of done a better job, you would of killed him with the first shot, they should of called you to help them since you are a sniper for FMPD, SWAT team right??

"One Shot, One Kill"

very sad and painful how we lost this officer.

No matter what....I feel badly for the widow Widman, who will be reminded of this incident forever.

Yeah...cops lie on the stand but lawyers...NAH NEVER! I call it preventative truth dodging. A lawyer sits there and tells the jury that this officer has a record of this, is known for that, while his defendant was harassed and did nothing wrong and is a model citizen (even though this is his 24th court appearance this year). Then the lawyer goes on to explain that this man has found God and will never be a problem to society again if he is just given a chance (again failing to mention that he already has been given 23 chances this year)... So the cop tells them what needs to be said so that there isn't a 25th court date, a dead citizen of the community or a murdered officer....Works for me...the best way to stay out of jail, court and prison is OBEY THE LAW!!!!!!

And BTW....does anyone else find it a little disturbing that the NDN told (in detail) how Widman died? I think that they should have used a little better judgement. Next thing you know, they will post the autopsy photos

umleed- I never said that I thought you could do any better. My point was that more range practice wouldn't have made any difference. Okay? That's where we disagree.

#50 Posted by paul2t
QUOTE.....

Changing the topic to something totally unrelated sends a message that you are unable to back up your stance.

#64 Posted by semper2
**QUOTE**
but lawyers...NAH NEVER!
**END**

What do you call 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

A good start!