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Letters to the Editor: May 10, 2008
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Grand
Editor, Daily News:
We know the demographics; we are Florida immigrants. We traded family next door for palm trees at the door.
So, how especially grand it is to hear about the new kids — all those new little persons born to our kids back where we used to call “home.”
Got the word the other morning: A third little daughter born to a niece and nephew-in-law.
Our walls are plastered with their pictures, but there’s always room for one more.
Hooray for the Internet.
Our hearts are filled with love and best wishes for their futures.
So congratulations to all the “grand” family — grandparents, grand uncles and grand aunts. We’re all part of it.
These kids are our future and we’re responsible for theirs.
Know a better reason for voting carefully, choosing leaders we sincerely believe will support our country’s best interests, and especially the interests of all those kids?
Make your vote count.
Make that your gift to these new little Americans.
Arlene Rutstein, Bonita Springs
Lock, stock and ...
Editor, Daily News:
One evening I bumped into a friend on his way home from work.
My greeting was, “Hi, how is it going?”
The answer was, “We are dying at the shop. The gas crunch is killing our business and we had to cut everyone’s hours.”
Why is it that most of our elected officials cannot bring themselves to help the working guy or gal who has to drive to work? We all know that the cost of oil does not change at the wellhead on a daily basis. It changes at the stock exchange and the traders are making obscene profits at the expense of our working people and to the detriment of our country.
Are the leaders of this country going to wait till the cost of food and fuel takes our country down? Everyone in government stood by while the mortgage industry and the banks sold bad loans. I recall former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan saying the mortgage market is an accident waiting to happen. Well, the oil and food markets are accidents waiting to happen.
We need help out here, elected officials. How about remembering we are here and stopping the insanity?
I have reached a point where I believe we are no longer a democracy but a “corporateocracy,” and the corporations own and operate this country lock, stock and elected official.
I love my country and did my time during the Korean conflict (four years in the U.S. Navy). I want this land to be as it was 7½ years ago — not at war, the economy going strong, our debt under control and some politicians being honest and caring, as opposed to the current mess.
Aaron O. Knopf, Bonita Springs
Know what I mean?
Editor, Daily News:
Human beings have a hard time agreeing on anything. It’s little wonder that people would be divided on the subject of same-sex marriage.
Gay activists must realize that marriage has been between a man and a woman for thousands of years. The mind-set of people can’t change overnight. Progress is very slow and is not won without a lot of pain. Preconceived beliefs are hard to abandon.
It took a lot of suffering to rid the country of slavery. Women’s suffrage was a long and bitter battle. Change is unsettling. People don’t like change.
Two men or two women being married to each other is sacrilegious to people who have been indoctrinated by traditional religious and conservative political organizations.
The love objects for gay people are different than for heterosexuals. For some unknown reason, some people prefer to love and have sexual relations with members of the same gender. Gay people choose their partner because they are attracted to someone of the same gender and want sexual relations with that person and to live together as a couple, just like heterosexuals do.
The meanings of words change. The word “marriage” can change to mean the forming of a union between two people, even if they are of the same gender. Marriage is no longer considered a means to bring children into the world, but a venue for two people to share their lives.
Same-sex marriage makes sense because it gives equality to all our citizens.
Eddie Filer, Naples
Back, and backing Jack
Editor, Daily News:
Jack Tymann is one of the most knowledgeable citizens of Naples, if not America, as pertains to the threat presented by international Islamic expansionism. His awareness has been honed by many years of direct, working contact with the Islamic/Arab world.
Tymann has penned some of the most erudite guest commentaries in the Daily News — columns driven by a commitment to purpose and accuracy.
Tymann was recently attacked in the Daily News by letter-writer Robbins Winslow. Tymann’s guest commentary referred to 15,000 potential jihadists who had entered the U.S. illegally. These numbers represent the lowball estimates derived from Homeland Security. Winslow’s “style,” now and historically, is built around ad hominem attacks, misdirection, political obsession and, of course, zero knowledge of the actual topic being discussed. This absurdity on Winslow’s part was repeated again with his attack on Tymann in which Winslow never addressed the actual position taken but compares Tymann to Joe McCarthy and excoriates him for his failure to offer condemning statements on the unrelated issue of John McCain and the Rev. John Hagee.
This is the consistent type of mindlessness that is all too typical of members of the American political left. Rather than exploring the obvious and measurable threat of Islamic jihadism, they seek to create parallels where any point is dismissed by not even being addressed.
A dedicated man like Tymann then falls prey to the insidiousness of an empty barrel.
Tymann is trying desperately to wake America up before it’s too late.
Andrew R. Joppa, Naples
Downer
Editor, Daily News:
What war on drugs? While the United States gifted Mexico $500 million and Central America an additional $50 million to help eradicate drug production (Daily News, April 30), our Marines in Afghanistan were told to “ignore” the vast poppy fields they walk through.
The United Nations estimates the Taliban militants earn up to $100 million from the drug trade. Afghanistan supplies 9.3 percent of the world’s opium used to make heroin.
This just adds to the insanity of this war where U.S. tax dollars pay tribute to primitive tribal warlords, who own the product of the poppy, to ensure they don’t kill our soldiers.
Jeanette Clark, Naples
Now and later
Editor, Daily News:
I concur with the editorial in the Daily News about the need to get to the bottom of the mess created by the firing of former Collier schools superintendent Ray Baker.
However, the long-term solution to the problem is to rid the Collier County School Board of the unholy troika — Linda Abbott, Richard Calabrese and Steve Donovan — that created the problem, and that is our job as voters in Collier County.
It’s our money they are wasting. If they had taken these actions in a private company, they would have been fired for cause.
David B. Goldstein, Naples
What’s on your menu?
Editor, Daily News:
Millions of people are questioning the wisdom of the economic stimulus checks.
In case you are wondering how you can use this check in a way that will help others, consider sharing it with your favorite charity.
You might even want to go out for dinner as suggested by Brent Batten.
Remember, charitable donations can also be deducted from your income tax next year!
Phyllis Wilkinson, Naples
Come together; here’s how
Editor, Daily News:
While reading Barbara Miller’s letter about foreigners assimilating to America’s ways, “straight talk” and “it’s about time” came to mind.
The division in our country results from the constant barrage by the mainstream media that effectively splits us into emotional or identity classes.
The reference to hyphenated Americans is an example that perpetuates division.
Polls repeatedly break down results into categories such as gender, age, religion, income and race. References to personalities and identities are incessant.
One way to bring this nation to ruin is to preserve each separate nationality with more identity to that nationality than to America.
A true American is one who is first and foremost an American.
Frederick Alexa, Naples
Gone too far
Editor, Daily News:
Thirty years ago, the ultrasonic pen cleaner arrived at our drafting classes at the Ohio State University. Those ink-encrusted, clogged pens could then be cleaned with ease. Great invention!
After seeing what ultrasound can do to pens, I try to imagine what those high-frequency waves do to a developing fetus’ brain. Could the “epidemic” of autism and the use of ultrasound (to see if it’s a boy or girl) be related? Do we cook the kid’s brain just to know what color to paint its room and which clothes to buy?
Now, our legislators wanted to make ultrasound mandatory for religious purposes. Makes sense. They were raised when lead paint was used on cribs.
In the old days, the quip to a pregnant woman was about “having one in the oven.” But in those days, we didn’t have microwaves.
Peter Tettoni, Fort Myers
Until we meet again
Editor, Daily News:
The Naples Concert Band recently completed its 36th season, setting new attendance records with eight Sunday afternoon concerts in the Cambier Park and concluding with a fine evening performance on April 18.
On behalf of the Naples Concert Band, I wish to thank our audience, all of those who supported the band this past season, by spreading the word and providing the financial support that enables the band to carry on this wonderful tradition of “Concerts in the Park.”
We will look forward to seeing you again at our opening concert on Oct. 26.
Frank Burgeson, President, Naples Concert Band
Believe it
Editor, Daily News:
Thank you so very much for publishing the article and recipe for tripe.
As a boy growing up in Kansas, tripe was never a menu item in our house, or even in the homes of anyone we knew. Many years later, while assigned to NATO’s headquarters near Paris, I was privileged to participate in a pheasant hunt in Central France. Before the hunt began, we were served lunch, tripe being the main menu item, and I found it to be an exceptionally fine dish.
The French pronounce tripe as “treeps” and, somehow, treeps sounds better to eat than tripe. One can find ready-to-eat tripe in the butcher shops in France, so for the remainder of my tour I availed myself of the opportunity to indulge.
My family did not share my affection for the dish and insisted on remaining deprived, but their loss was my gain.
It would be wonderful if Chef Dino Bugica would set up shop here in Naples. I am sure that some “nonbelievers” would be amazed.
Charlie Payne, Naples
Agree to disagree
Editor, Daily News:
It is not surprising that William J. Schuch, a member of the dissident group Voice of the Faithful, would be upset with Joan Devine’s dismay at the cartoon of the pope published April 18.
Joan is a friend of mine and is a devout Catholic. Schuch’s group, VOTF, has been requested to hold its meetings in the future outside the confines of the Catholic Church, as their beliefs are contrary to the Catholic Church’s teachings.
To say that Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI share responsibility for the millions of deaths in Africa is absurd. It is true that the church preaches abstinence and fidelity as the true solution to the HIV/AIDS problem. One does not treat one evil — AIDS — with another evil — condoms.
It is understandable that Schuch would not be fond of John Paul or Benedict as leaders of 1 billion Catholics. Probably hundreds of thousands saw Pope Benedict during the papal visit to Washington, D.C., and New York. I am certain Schuch was not among them.
We should all feel sorry for Schuch and his cafeteria Catholics and say a prayer for them.
James J. Phelan, Naples
Sizing them up
Editor, Daily News:
The marketing gurus, presently being enriched for packaging our next president, have a common snake-oil pitch which they believe will lead us down the path to their candidate: Focus on today’s problems, even though any intelligent voter realizes that whoever is elected will have to deal with tomorrow’s problems.
Today’s have to be addressed by the results of the industry’s previous marketing efforts in past elections.
Let’s see if we can peer through their obfuscation efforts and try to learn what’s behind the packaging for each contender.
Barack Obama:
Pros: Intelligent, ambitious, energetic, charismatic, young, student and professional in constitutional law, the foundation of our government, experienced in foreign cultures, collaborative, skeptical of current government.
Cons: Underexposed to previous U.S. foreign policy efforts. Most likely to believe “from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”
Hillary Clinton:
Pros: Intelligent, ambitious, energetic, older, beltway insider, experienced senator.
Cons: Combative, parochial Democrat, old-school politician.
John McCain:
Pros: Ambitious, energetic, very experienced senator, war hero, business-friendly.
Cons: Old, temperamental, can be cynical of current government.
Here’s an idea. These are just my thoughts about what’s behind the packaging and what’s needed for our unpredictable future problems. Modify mine and add your own. Above all, for the sake of our grandchildren, use your own intelligence and judgment in voting. Reject the “put some lipstick on that pig” marketing efforts which have created a multibillion-dollar, no-value-added industry and try once more to avoid the costly mistakes of previous elections.
Peter M. Zuris, Bonita Springs
See a pattern?
Editor, Daily News:
Why do liberal TV shills love Barack Obama?
Because he has the same moral ambiguity and loose concept of truth. Obama believes the public will believe anything he tells them for five minutes and then forget about it. Exit quickly, back door.
Obama pontificates and postures exactly like the well-dressed and stunningly coiffed shills that fill your TV screen at dinner hour, braying the latest bad news into your living room. Television lives and dies with bad news.
As the old saying goes: Bad news travels fast. Good news travels slow.
In TV land, it is always all about ratings. Viewership. The competition for your immediate attention is ferocious because book-ended around their normal dubious lineup of silly offerings are endless commercials, which are what actually pay the bills.
Accordingly, the networks allow their 6 o’clock shills to say almost anything to get your attention, if only momentarily. It does not matter if the information is not yet verified or correct. They have their objective. They have your attention. The network can backpedal later. “We were misinformed!” Oh.
This is Obama to a hilt. Say it now; say nothing of real content; and then backpedal and explain it all away later. It was “all a misunderstanding.” And then, of course, “that’s not what he meant to say.”
Huh? Say what?
Phillip Donovan, Naples
Fuelish policy
Editor, Daily News:
Ethanol is a disaster!
In recent weeks, the correlation between government biofuel mandates and rapidly rising food prices has become undeniable. Last year, 25 percent of America’s corn crop was diverted to produce ethanol. In 2008, that number will grow to 30 percent, and it will soar much higher as we attempt to reach the congressional mandate to increase biofuel production to 36 billion gallons in 2022.
The demand for corn is driving up its cost, resulting in increasing cost for beef, poultry, pork and milk products. In the United States, food has a 14 percent weight in the consumer price index, but in most emerging countries, it represents over 50 percent of their cost of living, resulting in people starving.
And what do we hear from our eloquent politicians on this subject? They have created this problem, but they will undoubtedly castigate the speculators and blame everyone but themselves. They conveniently forget that it is they who passed the ethanol subsidy and ethanol mandates, and they are the ones who appropriate taxpayer money to pay farmers to not grow crops!
It takes more energy to produce ethanol than it provides, and it requires the use of billions of gallons of increasingly precious water which is being drained from the aquifers in the Midwest. Our beneficent Congress is subsiding its production, while imposing tariffs on ethanol which is produced more economically in Brazil.
Craziness, I say!
R. Kingman Webster, Naples
Who are we?
Editor, Daily News:
To those of us old enough to remember people sitting on the front porch swing or rocker saying “hello” to those who strolled by as they took their evening walk, this letter may have more meaning and believability.
To those of you who can remember your childhood days where a handshake meant a commitment or vow, this letter may have more meaning.
Over the last several decades, it seems to me that a culture has grown up where people, our news media and politicians all believe that dodging or circumventing the truth for their particular end game is perceived as being clever or brilliant. This culture appears to be more highly valued than the truth.
Did this culture develop concurrently with the demise of the front porch and the use of a handshake? Did it grow when we put family rooms in the back of our house and built privacy fences? Maybe the hours spent on isolating ourselves with our computer or walking down the street totally absorbed while listening to our iPod exacerbated it?
Do you believe it would help if we caused people to look at each other again — to know who we are, to confront a person face-to-face, to know that our paths will consistently cross? And that while “we can fool some of the people all the time, we can’t fool all the people all the time”?
But should that be our credo? Shouldn’t I be able to shake your hand for relatively simple understandings rather than run to an attorney for drafting a contract?
Shouldn’t I be able to sit on a front porch (and feel safe) as I actively — even though I might be sitting — involve myself in my community and neighborhood?
Ralph Lieber, Bonita Springs
How low can you go?
Editor, Daily News:
During the morning hours of May 1, every news organization on the planet announced that President Bush made history. He attained the lowest approval rating of any president since record-keeping began.
I fully expected the Daily News to report the story on May 2, but no report. The same with May 3.
Your decision not to print this fact is disappointing, to say the least. It seems to me everyone has a right to know, but your selective system of reporting is not only bias, but not befitting a local newspaper.
Clearly, the current administration has our country in real trouble and yet you choose to turn a blind eye and not report credible news, probably because of someone’s political conviction.
This is just one more absurdity connected to the Bush administration.
Gordon Bedall, Estero
Above that
Editor, Daily News:
I want to thank a recent letter writer for his kind offer to purchase a ticket for me to see Ben Stein’s anti-evolution movie, “Expelled.”
I must respectfully decline, because I prefer to obtain my scientific information from sources like the peer-reviewed scientific journals: Nature, Science, Developmental Biology, The Lancet and The New England Journal of Medicine.
However, if he should decide to seek medical advice from someone not trained in a medical school, but whose expertise in medicine came from watching sessions of “ER” on TV, I’ll reconsider the offer.
Critiques of Stein’s film have pointed out how it depends on misinformation. The filmmakers lied to scientists to obtain interviews, then rearranged the footage, cutting out parts to make it appear scientists agreed with the distorted points Stein was after.
Let me make it clear, intelligent design may be good theology, but it does not meet any of the requirements for science. The theory of biologic evolution after some 150 years of challenges and thousands of studies still holds as the best science behind the origin of species.
As for relating biologic evolution to the Holocaust, this is not just disgusting, but irrational. Adolf Hitler had lots of other irrational concepts. Many psychological analyses of Hitler indicate various reasons for his intense anti-Semitism.
Incidentally, may I suggest a subscription to the online journal “Evolution: Education and Outreach.” It might not be as entertaining as Ben Stein, but I’m certain people will find it much more accurate and informative.
Allen Malnak, M.D., Bonita Springs
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James Phelan -
You state "The church teaches abstinance and fidelity as the true solution to the HIV/AIDS problem. One does not treat one evil - AIDS - with another evil - condoms."
My question is: How are you going to get people to practice abstinence and fidelity? You are as blind as a bat. It is silly to preach abstinence when most people don't listen. People do what they want. Condoms are not evil. They are one solution to the problem of AIDS if men would use them. In some parts of the world, their religions teach people not to use constraceptives because it against God's will. Mr. Phelan you are one of the people with blinders on. You should face reality. People are going to have sex no matter what the Catholic church says.
Yes, the Pope must share some responsibility for the spread of AIDS because he is against constraceptives, condoms and any kind of birth control. The Catholic Church is a menace to the well being of the world.
#1 Posted by rationalman on May 9, 2008 at 6:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Skippy...
Do you believe that the entire Universe was created in a few days, 6000 years ago, in the order listed in Genesis:
Day 1- Light
Day 2- Water and Sky
Day 3- Dry Land and Plants (no pollinators? no tides?)
Day 4- The Sun, Moon, and Stars
Day 5- Fish and Birds
Day 6- Animals (finally pollinators?) and Men?
Day 7- Coffee Break?
Really… does anyone believe that? Don’t be ashamed to witness your faith if you do, because I’m not afraid to say that I don’t.
Many missing links have been found... all you have to do is research a little for the articles. More are being found every year, and the sequencing of animal genomes agrees with Darwin. Your DNA is very close to a chimp's and has nothing to do with mud.
Is the Bible literally correct or not?
#2 Posted by AARGGHHH on May 9, 2008 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I KNOW from whence I came, and it wasn't from a monkey.
#3 Posted by mikesgirl on May 9, 2008 at 9:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
How old is the Universe?
#4 Posted by AARGGHHH on May 9, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
post # 1 Rationalman wrote...AGAIN!
"Yes, the Pope must share some responsibility for the spread of AIDS because he is against constraceptives, condoms and any kind of birth control. The Catholic Church is a menace to the well being of the world."
repeat the same lie often enought someone might believe it
despite repeated posting of statistics showing the Catholic church has minimal influence in Africa with only less than 6% of the population he continues to ignore facts
funny we have not heard from him about the influence of gay sex on the AIDS epidemic
could that be because you are a self admitted gay??
not an opinion......just asking
#5 Posted by Canuck on May 9, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dr. Malnak,
Great letter. Don't mind Skippy, he's (she's) still stuck with fire and brimstone.
Gordon Bedall,
Congress continues to score lower. Impressed?
#6 Posted by almasonlybar on May 9, 2008 at 9:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Bedall,
It probably was not reported since it really was not news to most people. The whole freakin' world is already well aware of the level of mediocrity and hubris occupying 1400 Penn. Av.
What most people may not be aware of is the family tradition. George Sr. scraped the cellar as well. The only President ratings worse than Jr. were Richard Nixon's, WEEKS BEFORE THE IMPEACHMENT process were to begin. LMAO.
Don't fret though. Jr. still has 1/2 year left to blow Nixon's record outta the water and lay claim as the worst President in history.
#7 Posted by boulderbilly on May 9, 2008 at 10:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In all seriousness though, we do owe Bush Jr. a debt of gratitude. He has shoved the stake so deep into the heart of the Bush family dynasty that should Jeb decide to run in 2012, even hard core Republicans would not be able to keep a straight face.
#8 Posted by boulderbilly on May 9, 2008 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Joppa, Tymann is a very good writer, you are too. If only both of you had your head screwed on straight.
Do both of you still believe the war in Iraq is and was good for our country and the world? You did in 2003 when we invaded. Both of you are wrong.
Do both of you still believe anything we do to support Israel is good for our country, no matter what Israel does? Of course you do. You are still wrong.
Do both of you believe Bush jr is the best U.S President ever? Of course you do. You couldn't be more wrong.
#9 Posted by bossman1 on May 10, 2008 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)
the freak show had his say again and as usual offers nothing but excuses for the dismal show in congress since the dimocrats took over. it's all freakio has left to hang on to. his kids don't talk to him. his neighbors completely ignore him. his two sons continue to support the mission. since the war has long been won and we are now in a peace keeping mode in iraq, it's difficult for him to pretend the fight is nothing more than what goes on in the streets of chicago. obama can't control the streets in his own city, so what makes freakio or any other useful idiot think good things are going to happen if obama is elected? obama rocks alright....to the tune of marxism and big oppresive government.
#22 Posted by skippy on May 9, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As a rule i usually do not respond to most attacks from the far right lock step morons but skippy deserves a response. He does not know me, does not know my sons who back me 100%, my neighbors do not ignore me so his whole message is a fabrication from his incredibly stupid mind.I am never offended by insults from morons as i only have pity for them but I do have trouble tolerating liers.That goes for you skippy,gonefishing and jagged .Enough said.
#10 Posted by jfriccio38 on May 10, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Donovan, Why do you watch the main stream cable stations at six o'clock if you don't like them? Is C-span too balanced for you?
As for Obama, he's not my best choice for President either, but anybody will be better than McBush.
#11 Posted by bossman1 on May 10, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
John, that is Not enough said. I will add to your list: Fein, Road, and quik.
John, Please keep writing, our country continue's to need you.
#12 Posted by bossman1 on May 10, 2008 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
AGREE TO DISAGREE: I can’t help but be a little subjective with this guy.
JAMES: You claim that “ condoms are evil”. PHELAN, You are a robot of the Vatican, programmed since birth not to THINK, but to blindly follow rules laid down in 325 ad by a bunch of womanizing drunks on the emperor’s expense account. Like a trained seal, you spend your whole life as a honey bee responding to the pheromone of its queen. You and your Pope speak of prayer, yet when illness befalls, you seek the best physicians available. You are a hypocrite, and a parasite. You benefit from medical science, while worshiping a religion of 13th century filth and squalor. The Vatican is anti-birth control because the over-reproduction of poor people leads to poverty, and poverty is the prime breeding ground for conservative Catholicism. This leads to power and eventually more money to pay bills at the Vatican. The Pope's motives are money and politics, PHELAN, and have nothing to do with morality.
#13 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 10, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sheenabella....I was interested your teaching and wanted to know whether you are teaching at a parochial school or in the public system
I ask because one of my daughters-in-law teaches autistic children at a Catholic school and my oldest granddaughter is in her first year of teaching children with special needs in the public system..she actually rotates between two schools..morning and afternoon
you might be interested to know that Ontario has both the public school system and the Catholic (separate) school system both fully funded from JK to grade 12 by educational taxes
parents designate on their property tax returns which systen they support
this system was enshrined in several Canadian provinces under the British North American Act but today only Ontario has the two systems
with the diversity of population severe pressures are being brought to either overturn the act for one system or to extend funding to schools of all faiths
in our last provincial election one of the main parties ran on the extension of funds to all faiths and was roundly defeated
just a little information from your neighbours to the north and a break from the norm on this forum
have a good Saturday and a happy mother's day
#14 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
re post #16....the rantings of an anti Catholic bigot who can only insult and call people names
seems to be a general trait amonst all these people
definition of the names says it all:
"Neoptera is a classification group that includes almost all the winged insects, specifically those that can flex their wings over their abdomens. ..."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoptera
#15 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why would any thinking person today assume that the Bible or any other religious text that purports to describe origins is an historically true narrative? The Bible and other religious texts are attempts of earlier human beings to talk about beginnings in the only way they knew how--by telling stories.
Many of the stories are beautiful, even uplifting, even as many also contain horrible scenes and totally unbelievable segments. But they are all human attempts by our more primitive ancestors to understand where they (we) came from. To view such stories as historical truth is to fail to appreciate them for what they really are: imaginative (I mean this positively) narratives using the "tools of the time." And even worse, to assume these narratives portray actual happenings which we today must believe actually happened, is to stunt and undermine the growth in human understanding and insight.
#16 Posted by r2winslow on May 10, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ms.Wilkinson- I believe you are out of touch.
Many people will be using their checks to pay their BILLS. or GROCERIES.or shoes for the kids.
THE ECONOMY IS IN THE TOLIET !!!
I personally will be using my check to pay for PART of my property taxes.
#17 Posted by givemeabreak on May 10, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
re post #16...one of your best posts ever, NEOPTERA.
You speak the truth about the unsavory side of religion in general, and Catholicism in particular. And you're right about physicians being sought when prayer fails. It's a mystery to me how the religious claim God does good work through the hands of doctors, yet eliminate Him from the enquiries where evil deeds are concerned, citing man's free will. They have created a 'heads I win, tails you lose' situation and are so self-righteous that requests for explanations are treated as insults.
Don't mind our resident Catholic bigot. He's desperately looking for something to discredit you, but I don't get how the winged insect thing does it.
#18 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Post #19
Such eloquent wisdom.
#19 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a unique solution. You beleive organized religion, Catholicism in particular, is evil? Don't go to church, no one is twisting your arm.
You are a strong supporter of the church? Fine, go to church.
Neither of you are going to change each others minds on the subject, nor should you. It's called personal freedom of choice. I think we can all agree that is a beneficial.
So lets move on to other subjects. The extremists on both sides are quite frankly becoming a bore. The saddest part is all the energy wasted on an issue which by its very nature cannot be resolved till one dies.
Get over yourselves. Ya ain't got that much to offer and we've heard it a thousand times.
AMEN!!!!!!
Oh, and OBAMA ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see what I mean. LOL.
#20 Posted by boulderbilly on May 10, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
R, Kingman Webster -
I agree with you about ethonal. It takes a lot of land, chemicals, and water to grow corn for ethonal. There are people starving and prices of food are high, and we waste corn making ethonal. It doesn't make any sense.
I think we have reached a critical time in history. Our civilization is at a crossroads. Can mass starvation and energy depletion be right around the corner? It seems that our leaders have lost their way and don't know what to do next. The blind are leading the blind. There doesn't seem to be much sense anywhere.
#21 Posted by rationalman on May 10, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Arlene Rutstein -
I don't mean to ridicule or sound hateful. It really disturbs me when people feel that bringing lots of little babies into the world is such a grand and loving thing to do. I feel sorry for little children being born. What kind of world do they have to look forward to? You say "our hearts are filled with love and best wishes for their futures". I hope you are right, but all over the world children are starving and being abused. Anyone that doesn't bring children into the world is doing the planet a service.
Thank goodness I never had any children.
#22 Posted by rationalman on May 10, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That's it... I'm convinced that no one who answers these blogs really believes in the Genesis version of Creation and therefore no one believes that the Bible should be taken literally. Thank you.
As far as Intelligent Design goes, even Einstein's "God" or "Intelligence" or "Creator" or "Watchmaker" was not a personal God. The god of Intelligent Design is as impersonal as death and disease. Why would anyone want that taught in a school? Intelligent Design is idol worship. You might as well believe in Marduk. Or maybe you think that any god is better than no God?
#23 Posted by AARGGHHH on May 10, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Every time I read the LTTEs I can't help but yelling HELP. It amazes me that hardly anyone agrees with anyone else. Is that how our brains were evolved? Why do we all have to think such drastically contrary thoughts? Everytime someone gives an opinion, someone else has to jump all over that person. Maybe none of us know very much, but it is good to argue and discuss things. It would be terrible if we weren't allowed to say what we think. Some people want only their views aired and don't want anyone else to give an opposing viewpoint.
some people only want to talk about safe subjects, such as Mother's Day or asking about how someone else's wife is or Obama Rocks or some silly subjects that don't amount to a hill of beans.
Boulderbilly #24 - I'm surprised at you. I always thought you were a liberal and believed in free speech, but lately I've noticed a shift if the way you write. You are beginning to sound like we shouldn't be able to discuss religion or politics if that is what we are interestd in. Lately, I don't think your posts have been very informative, just critical of others. I don't know if Obama rocks or not. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, because I know I don't, but I do try to be informative and give my opinions is a civilized way.
#24 Posted by rationalman on May 10, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Andrew Joppa is enamored with the scare mongering of Jack Tymann. As Rob Winslow said, it is akin to the Communist scare of the fifties and on. All we heard were the Communists are coming.
What we witness in this country, and maybe other countries do it to, is making sure we have some boogie man enemy out there who's going to get us.
Tymann exaggerates what is. It is not that there are not terrorists, so called Jihadists, but Tymann makes the number way out of whack, so we'll act rashly and do some fool preventive war thing to protect ourselves when it's all cooked up.
Rob Winslow was trying to bring some sanity to our perspective about Jihadists.
Also, r2winslow gave a good explanation of how people try to explain the phenomena around them. Years ago we had less access to the tools of science than we do today, so they had to do a good deal of surmising and assuming to try to make sense out of what was around them.
Also, I have no problem with Catholicism if it does not try to impose its beliefs on others. But they, Catholics, do try to affect the lives of others with their beliefs. They affect people with AIDs by denying condoms which also prevent STDs.
They encourage sexual relation in marriage to procreate, but in places like Africa as well as here, there is promiscuity. This has gone on since the beginning of time. Men especially are programmed to sexual activity.
Also, here in this country, they try to overturn Roe vs Wade which affects the lives of so many women. If they succeed they have taken away the right of privacy and the right of owning ones own body and making it captive of the religious beliefs of others.
That is what the Constitution tries to protect, our individual rights not subverted to religious beliefs of others.
#25 Posted by truthmatters on May 10, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
enigma,
Do you have any opinions worth sharing, or ANYTHING intelligent to say at all?
You keep calling me a hypocrite without explaining how that is so.
You leap to Canuck's defence and accuse me of trying to drag him into battle, but I did not address him, and I did not address you.
Try to get through JUST ONE DAY without posting your worthless, stupid remarks.
Go away. The grown-ups are talking.
#26 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BTW, enigma, you intimated last night that I have no life because I posted 13 times yesterday. When I pointed out that Canuck had 13 posts also, you ignored it. And you call me a hypocrite?
#27 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
truthmatters.....your post was informative as to your beliefs which were stated without insults or demeaning comments
let me try to respond to your comments as they pertain to Catholics
you are following the postings of others that blame the Catholic church for AIDS...especially in Africa
isn"t it just peculiar that if your premise was correct we would see AIDS epidemics in predominately Catholic countries such as Italy' Spain, Portugal, etc
I do realize AIDS is a problem in Haiti but that country is a mixture of voodoo and the church and in reality the church does have very little influence on the rural citizens where this problem exists
I have already posted statistics to show the the Catholic church is not a player in Africa where AIDS is most prominent
I am still waiting for an answer on the influence Gays have had on the AIDS and STD problem throughout the world
there are people for Roe versus Wade and there are people against.....why do you single out the Catholic church when the Jews are against abortion and the most vocal are evangelical Christians plus the southern Baptists
the pro choice people will fight just as hard as the pro life people
should one side or the other be pillarized for what they believe???
these are my views and comments which I would hope you respect as I do yours
#28 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
truthmatters -
You are undoubtedly the voice of reason. Thanks for being here.
#29 Posted by rationalman on May 10, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
AGREE TO DISAGREE: PHELAN is a descendent of the people who burned the ancient libraries, along with many of the Greek manuscripts of science leading to a Europe of misery, filth, ignorance, and superstition. He and people like him are still with us today as they continue their crusade to shape the lives of their neighbors according to the beliefs of their Medieval ancestors. For the last 300 years they’ve hitched a ride on the street car of medical science thanking god when the operation is a success and blaming the doctor when it isn‘t. To this day they continue their work, the function of which has been a drag on Western Civilization for over a thousand years.
#30 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 10, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's a shame that Canuck thinks that the Catholic Church can do no harm, that everything they do is for the benefit of humanity.
People are not facing reality when the clergy teach fidelity and abstinance. Yes, it would be wonderful if we lived in that kind of world, but the reality is we don't. Everyone doesn't listen to the priests and Pope, because humans are carnal.
It is unnatural for the clergy to remain celibate, but I doubt that few really do. There is much hypocricy in the Catholic hierarchy. I wonder how many of them masterbate or have homosexual activity among themselves. We already know some of them have abused children.
The Catholic Church is medievel and out of touch with reality. The faithful treat the Pope like a god. They kiss his ring. To those outside the church it doesn't make any sense.
I don't want to be hateful or bigoted. I just would like people to face reality and confront the truth. When the church denies contraceptives to it's followers, I think that is a crime against humanity. It is a death sentence to many of them.
It's hard to discuss religion with people, because it is such an explosive issue. Few people want to be open minded. I guess I'm lucky, because I'm not affiliated with any church or religion. I'm able to look at the subject objectively. I wish everyone was able to do that.
#31 Posted by rationalman on May 10, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Truthmatters, Nina and Rationalman: Keep up the good work.
#32 Posted by NEOPTERA on May 10, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
NEOPTERA,
Don't forget AARGGHHH. He may have a silly name, but he talks a lot of sense.
#33 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 6:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck, you are right; there are other religions who work to overturn Roe v Wade. The Evangelical churches are especially strong on this issue.
It seems that Italy's Catholics are very loose on practicing birth control. There birth rate is low.
I was not trying just to single out the Catholic Church for its teachings opposing the use of condoms. As I said, I'm not against any religion, they are free to practice it, but I want to be free to live as I believe within the laws of our state, but also along with the liberties that the Constitution provides.
As you probably know I was Catholic myself and went to 8 years of Catholic School. My childhood friend chose to be a nun, but both she and I left the church because we could no long accept its tenets. She even lost her faith in God. She lost everything. I retained my belief and hopes in a supreme being and my belief in the teachings of Christ. My husband, however, lost it all too. And that is sad, but he tied God to the Catholic Church, so when that went, so did God.
My only request is that we all are free to believe as we feel, and all have the freedom to practice the faith of their choice without infringing on the rights and freedoms of others.
#34 Posted by truthmatters on May 10, 2008 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wise words, truthmatters.
I am not against any religion, either. Belief is a very personal thing and, as far as I am concerned, people can believe as they wish as long as it does not impact the lives of others.
It is the attitude that all non-believers are bad and all believers are good that bothers me.
It can't be easy when two people who are married have different beliefs. Fortunately, my husband and I agree on religion and politics, so that makes for a fairly easy ride. We find plenty of other stuff to argue about, though!
Like rationalman, I know plenty of people who claim to be religious but are not moral, and vice versa.
The answer to all our differences is tolerance. We face an uncertain future where all that we hold dear may be threatened by those who call us infidels. I feel it is vital that we stand together as a nation in readiness for the onslought from Islam. We must put our petty differences aside to defend our freedoms.
The day of reckoning is coming, and sooner than most people think.
#35 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
as NDN was offline for sometime I did not have a chance to respond to Rationalman's #38 post prior to this
Rationalman your posts are full of hypocrisy
first you want to neuter every living being to save the planet from overpopulation
now you are against teaching fidelity..which means to remain faithful...... and abstinence
I therefore gather you are for promiscuity and people sleeping with whom ever they want and school children to have sex whenever they want
the church does teach fidelity and preaches abstinence in their schools....abstinence is not a factor for married people
perhaps if more people practiced fidelity and abstinence the world would be a better place...especially when it related to what seems to be your favorite subject AIDS
BTW I am still waiting for you answer on how gay sex has impacted on the AIDS and STD epidemics
we also know of some gays who are child abusers...does that mean we condemn all gays as child abusers
this is not the first time you referred to the clergy masterbating or having homosexual activity... why are you so fixated on this??
why don't you stay with subjects such as growing your own food instead of your constant bashing ...oops sorry "opinions" on religion
#36 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 9:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
Thanks for asking.
I am with the public school system. I am very fortunate to have a job, as so many are losing theirs.
I have never been in it "for the money", I love working with the kids, and they are very bright.
It takes a very special person to work with autistic children,
You must be very proud of your daughter.
I have friends in Canada, and hope to visit in the next year or so.
I hear that it is very beautiful, and you are so lucky to be able to live in two places each year.
Best to you and your family, and I hope that your wife has a wonderful Mother's Day.
It is always a pleasure to hear from you.
#37 Posted by sheenabella on May 10, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sorry ..the above should read Rationalman's post #35
truthmatters....thanks for your response...I did not know your background but that info does give one a better understanding of your posts
things happen in life which shapes our future and either strenghtens our beliefs or loses it...some of us regain it in later years and others do not
however we always should respect others with whom we disagree and I gather from your post you do believe this
it's too bad others who do not have this respect have tried to lump you with them....
have a good evening and happy mother's day
#38 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 9:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Atheists are anti-ALL religion. But you claim to have been attacked whenever we voice an opinion"
post # 59...April 27/08
"I am not against any religion, either. Belief is a very personal thing and, as far as I am concerned"
post #39.......May 10/08
????????????????????????????????????
#39 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
Most people on here respect the beliefs of others, they simply have a strong need to defend and explain their own convictions.
Judge not, lest ye too be judged.
#40 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Canuck,
"Atheists are anti-ALL religion."
This means that we choose not to FOLLOW any religion, not that we are against others following a religion of their choice.
I have told you many times that the faith choices of others do not affect my life, nor mine theirs.
I am trying to explain my stance in a clear and civil manner. I don't want to argue, just to clarify.
#41 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 10:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"prefix....ANTI
to be against...to oppose
as in anti-war"
source...wordweb
"I am not against any religion, either."
ENOUGH SAID
#42 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
post #89 ,,,,May 9/08
slowly.....DO NOT POST ANYTHING TO ME !
#43 Posted by Canuck on May 10, 2008 at 10:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Then don't quote me and then follow with
?????????????????????????????????
which I construe as a question.
#44 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BTW, he to whom I must not speak,
I am AGAINST following a religion. I am OPPOSED to following a religion.
I do not CARE whether other people follow religion.
And I will address whomever I please. Whether or not they choose to respond is up to them.
Remember complaining that rationalman slapped away your hand when you attempted reconcilliation?
Well, look in the mirror, Canuck.
#45 Posted by Nina6520 on May 10, 2008 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
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